Dear Sir/Madam,
One of my client invested small amounts in three schemes of Reliance MF, (Rs.2000/-, Rs.10,000/- Rs.10,000/-) three years back. He gave redemption request last week. as he needed money.
The fund promptly rejected all the three requests stating reason " Signature Differs". I have rarely come across any rejection giving this reason. But so many questions arise in my mind which I would like to put forth before my IFA fraternity. for discussion.
1. How important is this signature mismatch, when you are not making cash payment ? To know the identity of the person receiving cash is very important to ensure that right person is receiving the payment.
2. But here AMC is making payment either through A/c Payee crossed cheque or direct credit to the investors a/c.. There is no question of any third party receiving the payment at all !.
3. Investors Bank a/c is registered and printed in the MF statement after thorough verification. Further, investor's cancelled cheque leaf. is also insisted to make doubly sure !. When Account number cannot be wrong at all, what risk is there to AMC in crediting the amount to Bank A/c, wherever signature differs ?
4. Signature is one of the means to identify a person and not the only means. When photo, address, Pan number, Bank a/c details, all these match, should you still reject ? Then why take all detail other than signature. ! Withdraw KYC !
5. After rejection AMC is asking the investor to get his signature attested by the Bank Manager. How does AMC ensure that the Bank Official signature is genuine ? It is assumed depending solely on the Rubber stamp/letter head used there. Crooks are always more intelligent. They can easily get a Rubber stamp or letter head. Mind it ! In strict sense AMC official should personally go to Bank to cross verify. !
6. Besides. Bank attestation is not that easy. There is always big crowd in the Bank and Managers are too busy to attend to a small SB customer. Investor has to face rude replies !. Some Banks are collecting service charges for signature attestation. The Investor for having invested , is trapped , harassed and humiliated. His time and money is wasted.
7. The transaction slip used for redemption is mostly from the original statement held by the Investor. How can anybody steal it and forge ? Even then the amount goes to the genuine investors Bank a/c only. why is the worry ? Again this is an assumption which do not happen in real.
8. The Regulators were caught napping when major scams occurred recently, right under their nose. Their regulations have no meaning and having only negative impact on the industry. They look to investors with suspicion and IFAs as criminals ! Investors are being hounded basing on hypothetical assumptions ! Instead of punishing the guilty, all the investors are harassed,
To say "Signature does not match " and reject payment is utter foolishness in present day context. The AMCs, their R & T, staff are to be properly educated and should be mde to understand the consequences of their actions. All MF investments does not yield profit, In my customers case, after 3 yrs he is getting less than what was invested originally and received no dividends. AMCs should learn to be investor friendly and apply some common sense also. Regulators/AMCs should not think that there is a very big queue waiting to invest in Mutual Funds, Money flows to Mutual Funds only due to Distributors efforts.
With Best Wishes,
Boodugere Nagaraj
ARN 5746
36 comments:
We have also had similar problems with Reliance MF in the past. Their Staff and Managers are not helpful in resolving this issue, merely claiming that they are helpless, since it is the Registrar who are doing the rejection. We need some serious action from Reliance MF to resolve this issue
S.R. Chandrasekaran
Sai Securities - ARN 3533
Reliance mutual fund claiming to be no. 1 in AUM can also be tagged as no 1 is pathetic services. I have huge number of service issues to talk about , but of no use since nothing actually works at reliance .
Anyway one incidence I would like to discuss. My own redemption case wherein two requests with the same folio were given. The folio with lesser redemption amount of 4000 was redeemed and chq too was received ,but the amount of 62000 was not received even after 21 days ..shocking reason address not found ...? Yes the smaller amount did not have this problem . Same folio same scheme same person ..but reason different. Reliance management still are not answering this question.
Dear friend
All ur points are valid, but if signature mismatch is not taken seriously there
is a possibility that somebody else could sign like the investor and foul play,
though it may be negligible.
We as a community can represent the following:
Whenever a request is received by the amc and doubtful about the signature they
could call the investor over phone and verify like how they check personal
identification while the investor calling the call center, and then process the
redemption, which will avoid all confusion. While receiving redemption request a
contact phone no may be insisted if not registered.
And again we may educate the long term investors to get his personal
address/phone no/ signatures etc etc updated once in atleast 3 years to avoid
such things.
If AMC relaxes any of their procedure that is not for the investing public, I
mean in the interest of all of us( Remember so far Mutual Funds investing is the
SAFEST considering all the financial products, excepting the capital market
risk)
Regards
D.Solomon
ARN - 48599
ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS PROBLEM OCCURS TO THE DOCTORS, THEY ARE REALLY AGITATED. IN A DAY THEY SIGN NEARLY 100S OF PRESCRIPTIONS,WILL THE SIGNATURE VARY EVERY DAY /MINUTE?REAL COMEDIANS ARE THOSE WHO REJECT THE PROCESS SAYING "SIGNATURE MISMATCH"
it is very true . when the funds are going to go into the bank account of the investor , unless and until there is a very serious mismatch it should be allowed, because the only queestion is
'does the investor want to sell'.
In case of reliance mf they ask for the signature to be verified by the banker and then re-registered with the fund house and then do the redemption process again.
Dear friend
All ur points are valid, but if signature mismatch is not taken seriously there is a possibility that somebody else could sign like the investor and foul play, though it may be negligible.
We as a community can represent the following:
Whenever a request is received by the amc and doubtful about the signature they could call the investor over phone and verify like how they check personal identification while the investor calling the call center, and then process the redemption, which will avoid all confusion. While receiving redemption request a contact phone no may be insisted if not registered.
And again we may educate the long term investors to get his personal address/phone no/ signatures etc etc updated once in atleast 3 years to avoid such things.
If AMC relaxes any of their procedure that is not for the investing public, I mean in the interest of all of us( Remember so far Mutual Funds investing is the SAFEST considering all the financial products, excepting the capital market risk)
Regards
D.Solomon
Hi All
Happened to one of my clients also with Principal Mutual Fund.I am left wondering whether this is a tactic used by mutual funds to delay payments or to not pay. Really scary. He is also getting only 50% of his investment after three years and when on top of this they want bank managers attestation etc naturally he is agitated. His is a case of direct bank credit and there is no reason for asking attestation.
Regards
T K Vani
Dear friends,
There are complaints about signature mismatch and rejection of requests not only for redemption but also for several other changes viz. Address, bank particulars etc. Although the points raised by my esteemed friends are valid, we must understand that the signature is all the more important for valid discharge / transactions. Will anyone accept an application without the signature? The reason is that tomorrow an investor cannot say that he has not signed and sought redemption or changes , if the signature matches. Therefore my suggestion to IFAs is to approach their RMs in the interest of their clients to get the signature attested ,( whenever there is some doubt), before submitting the requests. No more hassle.
With regards,
L. Samraj
ARN 0435
B.NAGARAJ'S PROBLEM IS VERY SERIOUS AND RELIANCE SHOULD RELEASE THE MONEY IMMDTLY. INSURANCE CO'S REJECTING CLAIM REQUESTS CITING SIGNATURE MISMATCH CAN BE UNDERSTOOD BECOS THEY ARE DISPENSING HUGE AMOUNTS. IN MF'S CASE AMCS ARE GIVING BACK THE INVESTORS MONEY ONLY THAT TOO EITHER TO BANK A/C OR THRU A/C PAYEE CROSSED CHEQUES. WHAT IS THEIR PBLM. OR IS IT THAT THEY WANT TO DELAY THE PAYMENT FOR LACK OF FUNDS OR SOMETHING. WHAT ARE THE REGULATORS DOING IN THESE CASES. IF AMCS ARE GOING TO TAKE SIGNATURES THAT SERIOUSLY, THEN WHY ASK FOR KYC, PAN, BANK A/C ETC.? IS SOMEBODY LISTENING OR AM I TALKING TO A WALL?
From
Prakash Vijendranath vsp.prakash@gmail.com
Sir,
I agree by the worry felt by Mr.Boodugere nagaraj, since it is very foolishness on the part of AMC behaviour,By next time how he can source the business from the same client. I request IFA community to come froward to solve this problem and should not happen in other AMC s also. For that we have move forward now onwards.
Thanking you sir.
Dear Mr. Nagaraj,
I endorse your view. I also had a similar experience with UTI Mutual Fund, in the case of redemption of my aged Mother's MF Holding for a paltry sum of Rs. 2000 Plus. (My Mother is aged 84 +).UTI MF has outsourced the job of Processing redemption Requests to some agency in Hyderabad and those people have returned the request saying "Signature Mismatch". I talked to UTI MF Chennai North Usman Road Public Relations Manager and told him that they should not cause harassment to my mother, by asking her to go to Bank Manager and get signature attestation. I told him that if they want, someone from their office may visit my mother in my residence, (which is just 3 or 4 KMs. away) and get it confirmed personally. He replied that they cannot do all that. He then asked us to produce some other Document, having her Signature, (I could not locate any such document. Even if i found one, what is the guarantee that Signature would match? ). I then phoned to their Chief Manager Mr. Ramesh. In fact, I had met him only a couple of days back.) But he also endorsed the view of his colleague and told me that if I do not get any Document in a couple of days, then they would see. i felt offended that whether this is the courtesy they are extending to their Distributors & Investors. Thereafter, I did not do anything on that. Even now, the redemption is pending. If they have any difficulty, let them trust the Distributors anr take their words as correct , or, let them personally visit , if the distance is not prohibitive, and confirm for themselves. Above all, as you have rightly stated they are going to only issue cheque or pay through bank . Why they should make such a fuss ? May be the Investor has some urgency..They have to be investor-friendly. If an Investor cannot get his Funds for his /her needs, then what is the quality of service the AMC is rendering ?
I think this matter should be taken up with SEBI & AMFI.
Wishing God's grace,
CA V.Gopalswamy, ARN 40009 Chennai +91 9444456924 01/05/2011
Om Ganesa Karthikeya Shiva Shakthyai Namaha
Sir/Madam
I too face lot of redemption diffculties for my clients. In fact I stopped Reliance MF distribution. But Thick skin people of Reliance MF are not bothered about investors and IFAs. They will come to know the pinch if everyone do like me. Let us forget about our revenue from reliance mf, and let us all stop distributing the Reliance MF. We will definetely win by tomorrow.
Regards
Aki Srinivas
IFA
Today, more transactions are happening through credit card and no shop keeper is seeing the signature and moreover the credit card holder is not paying any attention before signing? (singature is not bothered at all) In some cases, few guys gave their credit card to their friends and the friend only sign in the slip, so far all get processed.
Today, the technology made our life much easier and everything is possible through technology. Some banks are even sending SMS reminder for 200 rupees of spending through their credit card.
Yes, I agree that there are lot of issues with registeres, instead of keep telling the problem why don't we suggest some option or solutions to registerer as well as SEBI.
To me, whenever the redemption proceeds the SMS and email alert will become mandate and in case of people who don't have the Mobile or email id which is very minimum percentage i think. In that case, the back office people from the registerer will call and find out whether the individual only given redemption or somebody else. The e-mail and sms contents should also have the mobile number and email id of the registerer in case of any discrepancy to be contacted.
When Insurance companies are calling the investor before proceeding the redemption why don't MF industry also follow the same. Likewise learned people and the vetrans in the industy will throw more suggestions to make all their life easy. This is my suggestion, probably people may work on this.
All the IFAs already feel that the bigger challenges emerging with the stock brokers of converting exisiting physical units to DMAT for more convenience. In DMAT mode, all the transactions are hassle free. These kind of problems with register will add more fuel to the burning fire.
My sincere request is to discuss solution for this rather than one by one is telling their bad experience with the register. Thousands of minds will definitely give a better solution to this issue. Looking forward for better solutions
B. Padmanaban
Certified Fiancial Planner
ARN-10868
I think R&Ts have either misplaced or lost or failed to scan specimen signatures of investors
and as a safe course they are rejecting redemptions.
Hereafter we (advisors) should demand that
specimen signature of investor should be shown to us
if the request is rejected for signature mismatch
so as to verify the genuiness of rejection,
further will also come to know whether the R&T actually has the specimen signature or not?.
R.Venkatraman
ARN-37582
Chennai.
YES. I have also faced same sort of problem. The signature the investor puts is some/long time before the redemption. Hence there is likely to be small difference. Even if the signature differs, as Mr.Nagaraj said the amount is invested after getting/fulfilling all the formalities and hence there is no reason why the payment could not be made. Big sharks/whales like politicians and others who indulge in frauds of LAKHS OF CRORES ARE DEALT WITH MILDLY. Even top banks who have cheated the customers using the currency derivatives were dealt with rather lightly. The AMCs should pay the amount without any fuss to the customers accounts registered with them even if there is some difference in signature since it varies over a period of time-V ANANTTHARAMAKRISHNAN-ARN 3758
All ur points are valid, but if signature mismatch is not taken seriously there
is a possibility that somebody else could sign like the investor and foul play,
though it may be negligible.
K. Sriram
ARN 19262
Sivasri PremierInvestments Pvt Ltd
i had same experience for my client from Reliance Mutual fund. I had doubt to maintain AUM they have adopted delay tactics or if redemption is coming end of month they are rejecting or if sufficient cash is not mentained then they are rejecting.such reasons for rejection or may be other reason Reliance can disclose.Lets unite & put forth this issue to Reliance Management solve forever.
chandrashekhar kulkarni.ARN-15259
let us unite & solve the issue with Reliance MF , unecessary reliance is harassing client ultimately we,(IFA) also get suffer.they are adopting delay tactics for some or other reason.We unitedly submit memorandum to Higher Management. whenever at all india level same problem occure.lets UNITE & solve Problem. C.P.KULKARNI ARN-15259
Here is the reply from Reliance AMC
Dear Mr Bhat
I have personally seen the case papers and have observed that the signatures of the investor in question does not match. We have exercised due care in rejecting the redemption request keeping the interest of both the investor and the partner in mind.
I have requested my colleague, Mahesh to share the case papers with you as well.
We will be happy to incorporate any constructive feedback from the IFA Galaxy team on the process improvement Also, I along with my colleague BY Joshi, Head -Operations and Service Quality shall be happy to get into a discussion with you to seek your inputs
Thanks & Regards
Himansh
Though we may have grievances against a mutual fund, please note that if the fund redeems and then the investor claims that he did not ask for a redemption!
Of course Karvy / Reliance Services should certainly improve a lot
Hi all'
Today a lady from principal mutual fund spoke to me regarding the non redemption of my client,s investment due to signature mismatch.she said how could she trust that the client himself had sent the redemption request since there was a slight variation.She also claimed that they have once rejected a client request for redemption four times and the client complied without a word. exasperating.
I would suggest that atleast they should freeze the Nav to the date it was received if they are going to reject the redemption application for signature mismatch.In my client's case the market lost around 900 points since the day his redemption should have been accepted.who is to bear the loss?
Hi all
I, am, N.S.BALASUBRAMANIAN, VRS RETD FROM INDIAN BANK APPRECIATING YOUR ALL THE OBJECTIONS WHICH ARE ALL BEING POINTED OUT VERY EXCELLENT, CORRECTLY BY EVERY WORD OR POINT NARRATED HERE. ALL ARE TRUE WORDS.
THESE PROBLEMS MUST BE STUDIED BY TOP OFFICIALS OF AMFI, ALL AMCS AND SEBI FOR MAKING NECESSARY CORRECTIIONS IN THEIR PROCEEDURES OF MAKING SMALL AMOUNT LIMIT OF REDEMPTIONS. THEY CAN TAKE SOME RISKS UPTO CERTAIN LIMITS OF REDEMPTIONS.................
MY ARN NO IS 14933
WITH KIND REGARDS
OK BYE
ERODE - NSB MUTUAL FUNDS AGENCY.
Dear All,
This is fact that the Reliance AMC rejecting the redemption requests frequently for signature mismatch reason.
My friend made redemption requests at Reliance AMC for his folio no 43757634031 (cost 6000/-) and 44571767611 (cost 25000/-) on 5 april 2011as well as at UTI AMC for his folio no 5145842919 (for around 90000/-). UTI made the payment without problem but Reliance AMC rejected both redemption requests for signature mismatch. Both AMCs are serviced by Karvy.
He argues that in Reliance he made investments in Nov 2007 (SIP) and Feb 2008 & in UTI around 8-10 years ago. He can't understand why Reliance AMC is harassing him when the AMC is not paying in cash redemption request is for direct crediting in bank account already registered with AMC. He says he never face any problem for his signatures.
Now he the investor rejected my suggestion for SIP in Reliance Gold Saving Fund for 20 years for his daughter's marriage.
Thanks & Regards,
SURENDER SINGH
ARN-66056Personal
Financial Advisor
Mobile: +91-98141-86640
Email: invest.grow.secure@gmail.com
Suraj Deogekar surajdeogekar@gmail.com
May 01,2011
Namaskar
I think what you have written sounds absolutely correct, but IFA's are at the mercy of AMC's. Now a days if you read the financial news papers the writers are also from the security services run by some of these AMC's and other private companies.I fail to understand how the the regilators are going to have any control on them.
If you look at the financial scams happened in past it is all those big companies and not the small IFA's OR investors.
I think the past sebi chief and his colleagues have been sold out to these brokers and security servise companies and there is no representation for the IFA's.
I don't think any AMC has ever represented the IFA's who are brining in small money from more clients.
INFORTUNATE for the country in this age of corruption.IT is going from BAD to Worst and to DOG's.
Suraj Deogekar
92241 39975
I too face a lot of Redemption difficulties for my clients. I request all the AMCs that they will not do the same practice from to-day onwards because the following reasons:-
Most of the clients are badly need of their money for Medical Treatment, Education, Marriage etc.
One 'X' wants to sign Ten signatures continuously in a plain paper, the FIRST and the TENTH signatures must be vary. Here, the 'X' will not cheat. Whether knowingly or unknowingly of the 'X', the Signature will vary without 'X' knowledge. This is the TRUTH SIGNATURE STORY of the 'X'.
Finaly, All the Redemption Requests will be crediting in the bank account of Client's Personal Account ONLY by way of ECS or REDEMPTION WARRANT but NOT TO ANY OTHER ACCOUNT because already the bank particulars with AMCs.
All the above valid points, All the AMCs will not give MUCH IMPORTANCE OF MISMATCHING OF CLINTS SIGNATURES IN FUTURE FOR THE BENEFITS OF CLIENTS.Normally, Mismatching of signatures will be Two out of One Hundred cases are very negligible.
V. Kasinathan, Salem.
Samvisw Investments - ARN 3175
Mr. Nagaraj
It is evident that they want to delay the payment. Sometimes people being frustrated give up and MF company gains from it. We need to address this to SEBI to stop such harassment.
Regards
Tarun Chakraborti
ARN-79529
Hi,
Even I have faced similar problem. One of my clients application is rejected twice. They do not mention the reason for rejection properly
Dear All,
This is fact that the Reliance AMC rejecting the redemption requests frequently for signature mismatch reason.
My friend made redemption requests at Reliance AMC for his folio no 43757634031 (cost 6000/-) and 44571767611 (cost 25000/-) on 5 april 2011as well as at UTI AMC for his folio no 5145842919 (for around 90000/-). UTI made the payment without problem but Reliance AMC rejected both redemption requests for signature mismatch. Both AMCs are serviced by Karvy.
He argues that in Reliance he made investments in Nov 2007 (SIP) and Feb 2008 & in UTI around 8-10 years ago. He can't understand why Reliance AMC is harassing him when the AMC is not paying in cash redemption request is for direct crediting in bank account already registered with AMC. He says he never face any problem for his signatures.
Now he the investor rejected my suggestion for SIP in Reliance Gold Saving Fund for 20 years for his daughter's marriage.
Thanks & Regards,
SURENDER SINGH
ARN-66056
Personal Financial Advisor
Mobile: +91-98141-86640
Email: invest.grow.secure@gmail.com
The case of redemption rejection is being happend in Reliance MF and the same has happend in my case also. While asking for producing proof, the same is being denied on security ground. The fact is that they are conciding material facts of non availability of original application of investor for signature mismatch. I believe the matter should have been taken up with the CEO on top priority.
Dear All,
I also faced same problem of rejections from Reliance Mutual Fund.
My suggestion is that IFAs should be authorized to put witness signatures (with ARN-Noumber)on redemption request as Life Insurance Corporation's agents are authorized. This will eliminate the problem of possibility that somebody else could sign like the investor and foul play.
Thanks & Regards,
SURENDER SINGH
ARN-66056
I am also facing the same issue for my rejection -- did anybody got a solutions or best way out of this to get the redemption..? what are the next steps..
My request for redemption of Reliance MF rejected on 29/09/2011 saying signature differs. No statements are provided (either hard copy or by email even though despached status found in duplicate statement). Redeemed my other MF by Sundaram BNP, DSP meryl lynch and Franklin templeton without any problem and i got the payment within a fortnight
It is true that rejection due to signature mismatch is the problem of Reliance Mutual Fund. So, some of my IFA friends had stopped distribution of Reliance AMC schemes.
Result - Reliance AMC lost the status of No 1 (in AUM).
Surender Singh
ARN-66056
Three years on, and Reliance MF is still rejecting redemption to the original linked bank account, with the same flimsy excuse that the signatures do not match. The signatures should hardly differ. This happens even after providing PAN and passport as ID and turning up in person at a Reliance MF branch, to verify my ID. It reeks of cheating.
The best way to tackle this would be to register online using Folio number.
Redemption request can be made online.
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